This time I will just give you the names of the seven QB's we used in our study and I want you to rank them. The order is different, and again dont try and go back and guess who was who with the stats, just give me your gut.
A) Chad Pennington
B) Carson Palmer
C) Ben Rooethlisberger
D) Tony Romo
E) Eli Manning
F) Phillip Rivers
G) Drew Brees
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
20 comments:
G, C, F, D, B (due to injury), E, A (depending on what kind of defense)
Brees
Romo
Roethlisberger
Rivers
Manning
Pennington
Palmer
Brees
Rivers
Roethlisberger
Romo
Manning and Pennington (tie)
Palmer (due to injury)
Roethlisberger
Manning
The only 2 on this list with either a Conference or World Championship and both have both. As for the others, until they win a game that matters they don't count.
Not sure who's stealing my anonymous tag but now I must destroy your arguement...if the list consisted of Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Dan Marino, Warren Moon, Dan Fouts and Fran Tarkenton you would rate the first five higher than the last four? Just answer the question and quit trying to defend Eli
Well, the list isn't comprised of Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Dan Marino, Warren Moon, Dan Fouts and Fran Tarkenton so your argument is flawed. I'm not saying these guys aren't good QB's, but if I have to choose one, I'm gonna choose the one who can get it done when it counts. Stats aren't everything, winning is.
MAXPOWER
Fine, forget about my first argument...Does qb rating count for anything in your opinion? According to your answer it means nothing because you eliminated the guy who led the league in qb rating this year (he's also won a playoff game every year he's started)...Is it possible that you think he doesn't count because the Giants traded him (and then some) for Eli?
I'm neither a Giants nor Eli fan, my argument is not biased at all. I want a QB who can win the hardware. You can throw all the stats in the world at me, there is only one that counts and Big Ben and Eli are both wearing them.
MAXPOWER
Eli and Ben both benefitted from playing on teams with at least one good (Toomer) or very good (Ward) veteran WR, a big RB (Jacobs, Bettis), a fast RB (Ward, Parker), strong offensive lines, and excellent defenses. So although these guys "won the hardware" as Anonymous put it, they had a bunch of help. The hardware doesn't really indicate that they are better QB's than Brees, Rivers, etc.
Furthermore, if "the hardware" includes Conference Championships, then Tony Eason, Neil O'Donnell, Chris Chandler, and Stan Humphries are "guys who can get it done when it counts." No fans in their right minds wants any of these guys on their teams, even when they were in their primes.
Anonymous Jet fan guy, the other Anonymous doesnt have much of alife, so he likes to make silly arguments. But it is true he is neither a Giants or an Eli fan whatsoever.
But it is still fun to watch you guys argue in circles. And to answer your one question, no I would not take Rivers over Roethlisberger. My list would go like this:
Roethlisberger
Manning
Brees
Pennington
Palmer
Rivers
Romo
I put those spaces in there to help indicate that I out those guys on different tiers when it comes to winning, leadership, sacrifice, doing the right thing, and their teammates belief in them to get the job done. Romo and Rivers have the least of these intangible qualities and NFL football proves that a team full of peopel who have winning attitudes, positive leadership, sacrifice for the greater good are the ones that win. That is what made the Patriots so good int his era, as well as the Steelers, it is what won for Giants last year.
Rivers has no receivers other than Gates. Tomlinson is always hurt in the playoffs. Schottenheimer is famous for choking in the playoffs. Norv Turner is an idiot. But you think Rivers doesn't have the intangibles because he hasn't won a SB? Even though the Chargers beat Peyton Manning and his Colts?
It makes no sense to say a QB isn't good because he doesn't have a ring unless his supporting cast is at SB level. For instance, Neil O'Donnell wasn't a good QB. Neither were Kyle Boller or Elvis Grbac. Brian Griese stinks too. They all stunk on teams that were really good and failed to win a SB.
Meanwhile, Brees and Rivers have put up big numbers without having played much with good receivers. It's not their fault if their defenses give up a ton of points and lose the game.
I did not say Rivers wasnt good because he didnt win a Super Bowl, I am saying I wouldnt take him because I dont believe he has the intangible qualities to be a winner. It was a knock on him in college and his inability to win big games and will continue to be a knock on him in the Pros as far as I am concerned.
I agree though that Norv is retarded.
Rivers is turning into one of the better qbs in the league. Last year he gave the Pats a run for their money after beating Manning's colts (in indy) on one frikkin leg...how is that not toughness and leadership. This year he led the league in rating and tds. He has as many playoff wins as Eli and has at least one win in the playoffs every year he has been a full time starter. Last Sunday he put up over 300 yards against the best pass d in the league and didn't even see the ball in the third quarter. Plus, he's feisty as hell and talks shit to the opposing team and backs it up. Teams rally around guys like that. He hasn't one the big one yet but he's on the cusp.
-Matt W (aka anonymous Jets Fan)
Rivers played hurt in the playoff games last year.
That doesn't count for anything?
You kind of have to throw out his playoff record, since Tomlinson has never had a good playoff game ever, I'm pretty sure.
That said, Rivers seems like a giant douche and I enjoy rooting against him. But in terms of pure skill as a QB, he's better than everyone on your list except for Brees.
Are we ever going to see the names that correspond to the stats from your last post?
A)Carson Palmer
B)Drew Brees
C)Phillip Rivers
D)Eli Manning
E)Tony Romo
F)Chad Pennington
G)Ben Roethlisberger
just curious...what was the point of this exercise...was it to prove that we think Eli is sup par by watching him and by looking at his numbers? If so, job well done, we all had D in our bottom 3.
Based on the numbers alone I had:
Romo
Roethlisberger
Rivers
Pennington
Brees and Palmer
Manning
Based on the names I had:
Brees
Romo
Roethlisberger
Rivers
Manning
Pennington
Palmer
So with the exception of Brees, I'm pretty consistent. And the numbers show that Eli sucks even more than I think he does.
I just thought it was an interesting exercise to do, to see where you would rank people.
by numbers Romo is the one guy who is totally skewed, when in reality he is the worst guy to have. Pennington can fool some with his high completion percentage.
I dont care where anyone puts Eli, I dfend him because I think he is a very good QB and I amhappy that he is the leader of my team. I was happy the day they drafted him because at the time I thought he was the best QB and continue to believe in his abilities. I dont care if you believe in Eli or think he is a good QB, his record shows that he is a good QB and one of the better, more stable organizations in the game continues to believe in his abilities, which is enough for me.
I have never come on here and flat out told anyone else they are right or worng for putting Eli or really anyone else where they want to rank them, I just find it interesting to see how people rank them.
For instance, Andrew posted that he thinks Yards per Attempt is the best metric to use, that would mean this season he would take:
Rivers
Schaub
Brees
Delhomme
Ryan
Pennington
Warner
Romo
Rodgers
Cutler
but I dont think Andrew would really take Delhomme, Rodgers or Cutler ove Roethlisberger, maybe he would, but deep down I dont think he would.
Again you can make numbers work whichever way they want. The one thing that is true about Manning is he suffers a certain amount of backlash because of his name. I am not accusing anyone on this blog but there are people out there that try to detract from his talent simply because of his name, it happens. In sports I call it the "Saul Smith Syndrome."
Here's the bottom line with Eli as far as I'm concerned...If I was the Giants GM and you asked me if I would rather keep Eli or cut him and start over...I would say keep Eli...If I was the gm of an expansion team looking to build a team from the ground up...I would look elsewhere.
Post a Comment